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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>planning meeting 2020.09.04 · t-compiler/meetings · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/index.html">t-compiler/meetings</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html">planning meeting 2020.09.04</a></h3>

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<a name="209035849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209035849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209035849">(Sep 03 2020 at 22:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>So for tomorrow, it would be helpful if interested parties could read/skim through this before the meeting: <a href="https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw">https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw</a></p>



<a name="209096337"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209096337" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209096337">(Sep 04 2020 at 13:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is the first year we've done a <em>contributor</em> survey, right? I ask because my first instinct reading over the above link was to ask myself "hmm how did this compare with last year?"</p>



<a name="209096611"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209096611" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209096611">(Sep 04 2020 at 13:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I believe it's the first year we've tried it</p>



<a name="209096889"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209096889" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209096889">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm here but my internet is acting up... just a sec</p>



<a name="209097060"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097060" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097060">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:03)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> yes, to my knowledge this is the first year</p>



<a name="209097305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097305">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hello <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> -- we're going to be discussing the rust contributor survey today. We're running a bit slow but let's give a few minutes for ...</p>
<h1>Announcements</h1>



<a name="209097337"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097337" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097337">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:05)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Please read <a href="https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw">https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw</a> if you haven't already :) <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="198054">@mark-i-m</span> did a great writeup</li>
</ul>



<a name="209097456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097456">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Also in case people haven't heard yet, <a href="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/until-we-meet-again/12985">this will probably be one of the last things I do</a>. Thanks for everything! It's been fun.</li>
</ul>



<a name="209097523"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097523" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097523">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>thanks mark <span aria-label="smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="smile">:smile:</span></p>



<a name="209097690"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097690" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097690">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, shall we get started?</p>



<a name="209097730"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097730" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097730">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>What would be the best way to proceed?</p>



<a name="209097741"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097741" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097741">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>what's best way to attack this; perhaps review the high level results?</p>



<a name="209097745"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097745" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097745">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>(actually I am going to relocate to another room)</p>



<a name="209097772"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097772" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097772">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>but that sounds like a good way to start</p>



<a name="209097791"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097791" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097791">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>(which is what the document does in the first place)</p>



<a name="209097834"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097834" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097834">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>The <a href="https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw?view#Summary">summary</a> here is excellent</p>



<a name="209097878"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097878" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097878">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I was going to point to that</p>



<a name="209097893"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097893" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097893">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>We have 409 responses, broken down into 164 people who never had a PR merged, 169 with &lt;1 PR/month, and 76 &gt;= 1 PR/month</p>



<a name="209097921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097921">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Its really good that we get so much response from the "never had a PR merged group"</p>



<a name="209097948"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097948" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097948">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, actually, there's an interesting question there</p>



<a name="209097957"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209097957" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209097957">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>in that, what is more important to focus on:</p>



<a name="209098021"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098021" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098021">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<ol>
<li>Getting people from the "never had a PR merged" into one of the otehr groups, or ...</li>
</ol>



<a name="209098044"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098044" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098044">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<ol start="2">
<li>Getting the people in "&lt; 1 PR/month" into the "&gt;= 1 PR/month"</li>
</ol>



<a name="209098066"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098066" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098066">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would say both</p>



<a name="209098069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098069">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can see arguments on both sides of that</p>



<a name="209098071"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098071" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098071">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's a train</p>



<a name="209098074"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098074" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098074">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>My take is: while I care about both, I think we have more trouble with the "latter stages"</p>



<a name="209098109"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098109" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098109">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., the hardest thing is to retain folks after the first PR or two</p>



<a name="209098138"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098138" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098138">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>(though I am really interested in making that first PR much easier)</p>



<a name="209098158"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098158" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098158">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I view it slightly differently: there is only a small population that will ever become long-term contributors to begin with</p>



<a name="209098170"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098170" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098170">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>and if the experience was difficult to get that one PR landed, that can be a big reason why</p>



<a name="209098177"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098177" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098177">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>and the challenge is to get as many of them</p>



<a name="209098187"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098187" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098187">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>i think if the first PR is seen as "less workload" people will be more willing to contribute again</p>



<a name="209098249"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098249" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098249">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I was pondering that too :)</p>



<a name="209098258"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098258" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098258">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway this distinction of which audience we wish to focus on</p>



<a name="209098261"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098261" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098261">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, I guess I agree with both in any case ;)</p>



<a name="209098267"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098267" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098267">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>is just something we should keep in the back of our minds</p>



<a name="209098275"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098275" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098275">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do agree that we need to consider both groups</p>



<a name="209098284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098284">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>but there are definitely some decisions that will focus more on one group or another</p>



<a name="209098308"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098308" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098308">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>also fixing some of the issues for group 1, might have a side-effect of fixing the 2nd group partially</p>



<a name="209098310"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098310" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098310">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>My impression is that a lot of the work we desperately need to do is just completely infeasible for people to do one-off so while attracting new contributors is good, we need to make the ramp from one-time contribution to regular contributor smoother.</p>
<p>(At least, on the compiler side of things)</p>



<a name="209098314"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098314" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098314">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>(e.g. the initial landing page stuff is something that probably benefits the newcomers most)</p>



<a name="209098322"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098322" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098322">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>agreed, let me take one more stab at saying what I was going to say: I do feel that historically we've focused more on the front of the funnel, I guess, than on the middle.</p>



<a name="209098422"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098422" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098422">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(anyway I think we should just dive in I guess)</p>



<a name="209098454"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098454" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098454">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>that said I do feel that stuff like 'one clera source for information' will benefit newcomers and experienced folks alike</p>



<a name="209098461"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098461" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098461">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>so the summary spelled out the high level feedback from specific groups</p>



<a name="209098498"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098498" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matklad <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098498">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>also fixing some of the issues for group 1, might have a side-effect of fixing the 2nd group partially</p>
</blockquote>
<p>There's also effect int he opposite direction: recurring contributors are mentors for the first-time contributors.</p>



<a name="209098551"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098551" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098551">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>by the way, depending on which view you use in <a href="https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw?view#Summary">https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw?view#Summary</a> , the comments on the right-hand side may or may not be visible.</p>



<a name="209098576"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098576" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098576">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>specifically, if you use the hybrid two column view, then you need to turn comments on explicitly</p>



<a name="209098673"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098673" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098673">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>(there's a <span aria-label="speech bubble" class="emoji emoji-1f5e8" role="img" title="speech bubble">:speech_bubble:</span> at the top you click to do it)</p>



<a name="209098697"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098697" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098697">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I guess one thing that would benefit the first two groups a lot is streamline the process a bit:</p>



<a name="209098723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098723">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:18)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Making it easier to find something to work on (especially mentored/beginner issues)</li>
</ul>



<a name="209098757"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098757" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098757">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah my TL;DR notes are: </p>
<ul>
<li>streamline contributions to compiler, std libs, and tools</li>
<li>finding suitable issues to work on</li>
<li>code base is hard to learn</li>
<li>identifying the status of an issue, missing documentation</li>
<li>work on organization of information</li>
<li>less glamorous - error docs, <a href="http://crates.io">crates.io</a>, <a href="http://docs.rs">docs.rs</a>, and cargo</li>
<li>compiler is by far the most frequently contributed-to codebase followed by<br>
std libs or dev-tools</li>
</ul>



<a name="209098764"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098764" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098764">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Making the compile/debug/edit cycle faster</li>
</ul>



<a name="209098795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098795">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209098764">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Making the compile/debug/edit cycle faster</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p>does turning on incremental mode in config.toml help <em>enough</em> here? And if so, should we be advertising it more prominently?</p>



<a name="209098807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098807">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think what we really need is some kind of structure here, like, experts that mentor regular contributors to become experts, regular contributors that mentor people that landed one PR to become regular contributors, and first time PR people that mentor people that never landed a PR so they can do that. I kind of feel like an structure like that is what's better to try to build.</p>



<a name="209098821"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098821" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098821">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>We cannot turn incremental on by default I suspect (unfortunately)</p>



<a name="209098913"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098913" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098913">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>The structure that <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116266">@Santiago Pastorino</span> mentioned is what we often aim to achieve with working groups.</p>



<a name="209098929"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098929" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098929">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209098795">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209098764">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Making the compile/debug/edit cycle faster</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p>does turning on incremental mode in config.toml help <em>enough</em> here? And if so, should we be advertising it more prominently?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Compared to most other projects, no. I think most people are expecting something like "compiles in 5 minutes on a normal machine"</p>



<a name="209098935"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098935" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098935">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we <em>could</em> perhaps, I'd be interested in hearing why you think we can't, but I've not historically seen incremental as a big win</p>



<a name="209098966"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209098966" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209098966">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>currently for e-mentor issues, the person contributing has to contact the assigned/reviewer to get mentoring instructions. if we could have mentoring notes if possible on these issues, it would be easier for people to contribute</p>



<a name="209099015"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099015" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099015">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yep that's another thing people said</p>



<a name="209099027"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099027" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099027">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>So to give a bit of structure, I propose we go forward by those three groups, devoting 10 minutes to each</p>



<a name="209099034"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099034" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099034">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>That even short notes on the issues by experts were helpful</p>



<a name="209099037"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099037" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099037">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then 10 minutes for final conclusions?</p>



<a name="209099095"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099095" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099095">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I will keep a timer :)</p>



<a name="209099101"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099101" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099101">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<h1>Never had a PR merged</h1>



<a name="209099104"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099104" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099104">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120823">DPC</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209098966">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>currently for e-mentor issues, the person contributing has to contact the assigned/reviewer to get mentoring instructions. if we could have mentoring notes if possible on these issues, it would be easier for people to contribute</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="209099114"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099114" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099114">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099034">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>That even short notes on the issues by experts were helpful</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="209099131"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099131" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099131">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm just highlighting those two comments because they were quite on point</p>



<a name="209099134"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099134" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099134">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>something I've learned also is</p>



<a name="209099148"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099148" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099148">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>writing anything is MUCH better than nothing</li>
</ul>



<a name="209099154"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099154" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099154">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>writing too much is sometimes counterproductive</li>
</ul>



<a name="209099159"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099159" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099159">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>both because you never write it</p>



<a name="209099164"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099164" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099164">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>and because I think it's helpful for people to poke about</p>



<a name="209099193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099193">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>the closer you get to sending a diff, the less they will have to experiment and learn</p>



<a name="209099216"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099216" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099216">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>one other thing I've noticed is that this is a great way to find places where our docs are lacking,</p>



<a name="209099217"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099217" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099217">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Interesting -- that's a good insight</p>



<a name="209099220"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099220" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099220">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099193">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>the closer you get to sending a diff, the less they will have to experiment and learn</p>
</blockquote>
<p>that's interesting</p>



<a name="209099228"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099228" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099228">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>since I try to always link to rustc-dev-guide and to e.g. our API docs</p>



<a name="209099291"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099291" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099291">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>sometimes a diff is really important, but probably only for people who are already experts</p>



<a name="209099312"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099312" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099312">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>and also an important thing is to try to teach people how to experiment</p>



<a name="209099332"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099332" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099332">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>there are some things in the guide but unsure if what we have is enough</p>



<a name="209099345"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099345" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099345">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>(one thing I will say is that more and more often there IS an appropriate page in the rustc-dev-guide to link to, which is awesome and credit goes to <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1380">@WG-rustc-dev-guide</span> for that)</p>



<a name="209099357"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099357" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099357">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I mean it always needs more work ...</p>



<a name="209099365"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099365" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099365">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>the other thing I am curious about --</p>



<a name="209099378"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099378" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099378">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>a common theme is "PR reviews"</p>



<a name="209099382"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099382" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099382">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., how fast are they</p>



<a name="209099391"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099391" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099391">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>did that come up in the survey? I can't remember</p>



<a name="209099428"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099428" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099428">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think less so for new contributors (can't remember off the top of my head)</p>



<a name="209099431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099431">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I assume we didn't ask how many of our contributors are using <code>gdb</code> (or <code>lldb</code>) as part of their workflow with <code>rustc</code>?)</p>



<a name="209099432"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099432" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099432">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's important point because often people have a weekend to spare and are looking for something to work on that fits within that</p>



<a name="209099457"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099457" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099457">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it matters more to frequent contributors</p>



<a name="209099471"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099471" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099471">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Except in one case:</p>



<a name="209099557"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099557" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099557">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099431">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(I assume we didn't ask how many of our contributors are using <code>gdb</code> (or <code>lldb</code>) as part of their workflow with <code>rustc</code>?)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>gdb is extremely painful to use when running rustc on the standard library/rustc itself</p>



<a name="209099561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099561">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>when contributing to no-rustc/std, e.g. cargo, often PRs sit there untouched forever</p>



<a name="209099564"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099564" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099564">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>because it goes through bootstrap</p>



<a name="209099566"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099566" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099566">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is discouraging</p>



<a name="209099570"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099570" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099570">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099391">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>did that come up in the survey? I can't remember</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I saw it mentioned here: <a href="https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw?view#Takeaway-4">https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw?view#Takeaway-4</a></p>



<a name="209099617"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099617" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099617">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232545">@Joshua Nelson</span> you mean because people don't know to use <code>--verbose</code> to see the actual command line to invoke first?</p>



<a name="209099638"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099638" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099638">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Which wouldn't surprise me; I just want to make sure I understand)</p>



<a name="209099648"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099648" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099648">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099617">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> you mean because people don't know to use <code>--verbose</code> to see the actual command line to invoke first?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>no, because --verbose is not <em>sufficient</em> to replicate what bootstrap is doing</p>



<a name="209099661"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099661" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099661">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>you need to also have various environment variables set</p>



<a name="209099662"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099662" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099662">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh right, those darn env variables</p>



<a name="209099665"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099665" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099665">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah that drives me crazy</p>



<a name="209099669"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099669" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099669">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Argh!)</p>



<a name="209099673"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099673" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099673">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I spent like a week on it before giving up</p>



<a name="209099677"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099677" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099677">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>we used to have a mode for that, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="123586">@nagisa</span> added something nifty..</p>



<a name="209099692"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099692" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099692">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've had bugs open <strong>forever</strong> to address that</p>



<a name="209099695"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099695" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099695">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I contribute ~fairly regularly</p>



<a name="209099698"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099698" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099698">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>...but it stopped working at some point</p>



<a name="209099759"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099759" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099759">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>one other observation I thought was interesting (though not unexpected) was the lack of E-mentor issues</p>



<a name="209099777"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099777" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099777">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>it occurs to me that this is something we <em>could</em> definitely try to organize around, at least in theory</p>



<a name="209099796"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099796" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099796">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099759">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>one other observation I thought was interesting (though not unexpected) was the lack of E-mentor issues</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I've been trying to help with that :)</p>



<a name="209099814"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099814" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099814">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AE-mentor">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AE-mentor</a></p>



<a name="209099837"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099837" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099837">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yep, that was definitely a big theme: unable to find something to work on</p>



<a name="209099859"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099859" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099859">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>See also <a href="https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw?view#Takeaway-7">https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw?view#Takeaway-7</a></p>



<a name="209099866"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099866" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099866">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>also among the second group, but we'll get there...</p>



<a name="209099885"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099885" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099885">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like the ideal would be to have a mentoring group that (a) writes up some tips for good mentoring instructions and (b) tries to identify and add mentoring instructions to issues, but I worry that this might fail because it turns out that it requires kind of specialized knoweldge to do (b)</p>



<a name="209099906"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099906" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> bjorn3 <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099906">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099661">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>you need to also have various environment variables set</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Doesn't the rustc wrapper output the whole invocation of the real rustc when using <code>-vv</code>?</p>



<a name="209099926"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099926" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099926">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>my hope was that project groups could do it within their project, and sometimes that works, but it's hard to get to that state, you have to bootstrap the group enough to have enough bandwidth</p>



<a name="209099942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099942">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099885">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I feel like the ideal would be to have a mentoring group that (a) writes up some tips for good mentoring instructions and (b) tries to identify and add mentoring instructions to issues, but I worry that this might fail because it turns out that it requires kind of specialized knoweldge to do (b)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes, I think this is one place where t-compiler needs to commit to doing it directly</p>



<a name="209099998"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209099998" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209099998">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah although mostly I meant</p>



<a name="209100004"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100004" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100004">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>i've been working on the 2nd part a bit, sending issues to various newcomers to work on</p>



<a name="209100010"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100010" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100010">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I might be interested in getting a group of experienced folks together to spend an hour a week doing it or something</p>



<a name="209100034"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100034" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100034">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>might be hard to sustain ...</p>



<a name="209100036"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100036" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100036">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120823">DPC</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100004">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>i've been working on the 2nd part a bit, sending issues to various newcomers to work on</p>
</blockquote>
<p>How well has that worked?</p>



<a name="209100046"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100046" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100046">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>(genuinely curious)</p>



<a name="209100073"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100073" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100073">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>1 more minute till we shift groups :)</p>



<a name="209100110"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100110" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100110">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="133247">bjorn3</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099906">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209099661">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>you need to also have various environment variables set</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Doesn't the rustc wrapper output the whole invocation of the real rustc when using <code>-vv</code>?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>not with env variables: <a href="https://gist.github.com/jyn514/0e4930b457532ec87a5e7c2cf80f491b">https://gist.github.com/jyn514/0e4930b457532ec87a5e7c2cf80f491b</a></p>



<a name="209100111"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100111" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100111">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think some sort of regular way of tracking/creating e-mentor issues would be helpful</p>



<a name="209100122"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100122" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100122">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe this is specific to rustdoc <span aria-label="shrug" class="emoji emoji-1f937" role="img" title="shrug">:shrug:</span></p>



<a name="209100123"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100123" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100123">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>so far i can say around 60% of them have managed to contribute successfully  and around 20% have managed to make more than 1 contribution as per my guesswork</p>



<a name="209100138"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100138" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100138">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>even if it was just to mention the number of e-mentor issues in the Thursday meeting and assign someone to create 5 more</p>



<a name="209100149"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100149">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>that way the load is a bit more diffuse</p>



<a name="209100166"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100166" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100166">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<h1>Contribute &lt; 1 PR / month</h1>



<a name="209100203"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100203" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100203">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100138">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>even if it was just to mention the number of e-mentor issues in the Thursday meeting and assign someone to create 5 more</p>
</blockquote>
<p>that's an interesting idea</p>



<a name="209100218"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100218" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100218">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>let's start with like 2</p>



<a name="209100225"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100225" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100225">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>:)</p>



<a name="209100237"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100237" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100237">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I should have said 1...)</p>



<a name="209100238"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100238" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100238">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>i think it would be better to first look at existing e-mentor issues before adding more to the list</p>



<a name="209100243"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100243" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100243">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100111">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think some sort of regular way of tracking/creating e-mentor issues would be helpful</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and maybe measuring periodically how much progress we're making with: 1. identifying/tagging E-mentor issues, 2. writing up mentorship instructions, and 3. matching it with volunteer to assist with it.</p>



<a name="209100260"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100260" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100260">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>So actually</p>



<a name="209100264"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100264" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100264">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>the meaning of E-mentor in my opinion</p>



<a name="209100271"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100271" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100271">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>should not be "someone is willing to mentor"</p>



<a name="209100280"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100280" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100280">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>it should be "there are mentoring instructions"</p>



<a name="209100306"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100306" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100306">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>since I think the former is kind of not that important ..</p>



<a name="209100318"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100318" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100318">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I guess looking at E-mentor that are not yet having instructions makes sense</p>



<a name="209100322"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100322" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100322">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120823">DPC</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100238">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>i think it would be better to first look at existing e-mentor issues before adding more to the list</p>
</blockquote>
<p>So actually, I think this is a good place to start with group 2</p>



<a name="209100326"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100326" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100326">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, are there any things that are specific to 1 PR/month?</p>



<a name="209100354"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100354" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100354">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100326">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>anyway, are there any things that are specific to 1 PR/month?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>churn in the contributing process maybe</p>



<a name="209100356"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100356" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100356">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>(well knowing who the expert is to contact on something might be semi-helpful. but written instructions are definitely better.)</p>



<a name="209100361"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100361" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100361">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>like documentation that moves</p>



<a name="209100410"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100410" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100410">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>and changes in bootstrap (though hopefully not too many more of those)</p>



<a name="209100416"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100416" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100416">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>there are 7 takeaways :)</p>



<a name="209100421"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100421" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100421">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think mostly this group is feeling the growth pains</p>



<a name="209100452"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100452" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100452">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>They find it hard to find work</li>
</ul>



<a name="209100474"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100474" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100474">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>when they find an interesting issue, they don't know enough to find out the current status</li>
</ul>



<a name="209100498"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100498" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100498">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>"One person also noted that it’s not clear how to join teams or WGs"</li>
</ul>



<a name="209100513"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100513" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100513">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>they start contributing to other repos, but many of those are not actively maintained</li>
</ul>



<a name="209100518"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100518" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100518">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100498">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>"One person also noted that it’s not clear how to join teams or WGs"</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p>that was <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="225422">@pickfire</span>  I think</p>



<a name="209100538"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100538" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100538">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>in general I think that our team/WG organization needs work :)</p>



<a name="209100560"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100560" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100560">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>It was anonymous, so I don't know</p>



<a name="209100565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100565">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100498">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>"One person also noted that it’s not clear how to join teams or WGs"</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p>every bullet like this seems like it corresponds to something we need to add to CONTRIBUTING.md or elsewhere</p>



<a name="209100645"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100645" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100645">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>(not necessarily CONTRIBUTING.md; I noted on the hackmd that for some reason that was cited as the most used document, but I don't understand how it could have been, given how little it contains.)</p>



<a name="209100653"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100653" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100653">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100560">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>It was anonymous, so I don't know</p>
</blockquote>
<p>oh I was  just referring to <a href="#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/Rust.20teams.20for.20public">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/Rust.20teams.20for.20public</a></p>



<a name="209100663"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100663" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100663">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>There was also a proposal at some point to make a contributors landing page... contribute.rlo or something</p>



<a name="209100666"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100666" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100666">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>what if instead of people finding work, we flip it, we  have a place where people can ask for something they can work on, and we distribute some of the work?</p>



<a name="209100682"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100682" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100682">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>Some of our working group memberships are "opt-in" and some are "by-invitation". Which I think definitely adds to the confusion.</p>



<a name="209100700"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100700" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100700">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>that could help to document everything and funnel people to the right places</p>



<a name="209100713"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100713" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100713">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120823">DPC</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100666">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>what if instead of people finding work, we flip it, we  have a place where people can ask for something they can work on, and we distribute some of the work?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't quite understand the distinction you are drawing here</p>



<a name="209100719"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100719" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100719">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've always imagined that we would have a clear page that's like "here are the groups", but it's harder to create than it seems, and hard to keep up to date</p>



<a name="209100746"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100746" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100746">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125250">Wesley Wiser</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100682">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Some of our working group memberships are "opt-in" and some are "by-invitation". Which I think definitely adds to the confusion.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I didn't know some were by-invitation!</p>



<a name="209100795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100795">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I didn't either until I got the survey feedback</p>



<a name="209100802"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100802" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100802">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, I think what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125250">@Wesley Wiser</span> meant is kind of "some are not looking to mentor folks"</p>



<a name="209100848"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100848" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100848">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had thought they were all a "show up and see what's happening" flavor</p>



<a name="209100851"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100851">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>or don't have bandwidth to add more people</p>



<a name="209100861"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100861" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100861">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm</p>



<a name="209100886"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100886" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100886">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>in the past I think you and I had described a "project" vs "project <em>group</em>" distinction, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span></p>



<a name="209100907"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100907" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100907">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>Not trying to point fingers or anything but, for example when we started wg-prioritization it was "if you're interested, add yourself to the team repo"</p>



<a name="209100913"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100913" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100913">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., it's worth tracking <em>projects</em>, but sometimes it just takes 1 or 2 people to pursue and that's the right number</p>



<a name="209100959"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100959" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100959">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125250">Wesley Wiser</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100907">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Not trying to point fingers or anything but, for example when we started wg-prioritization it was "if you're interested, add yourself to the team repo"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>is that somehow invite-only?</p>



<a name="209100982"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100982" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100982">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh, I took it as an example of the opposite</p>



<a name="209100983"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100983" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100983">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>It sounds to me to be "anyone can join, they just need to jump over this hurdle"</p>



<a name="209100995"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209100995" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209100995">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100713">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120823">DPC</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209100666">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>what if instead of people finding work, we flip it, we  have a place where people can ask for something they can work on, and we distribute some of the work?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't quite understand the distinction you are drawing here</p>
</blockquote>
<p>so currently if people want to contribute, they often have to search the issue tracker for something to work on, which can be daunting because a) you need to find an issue that needs work b) they need to know the current status of the issue, which isn't easy in most cases (especially for older issues)</p>



<a name="209101049"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101049" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101049">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess that <a href="https://hackmd.io/b-FKKh9DSnah-lj1NVKaAw?view#Takeaway-10">Takeaway 10</a> concerns PR reviews, but it seems like it's quite intermingled with other parts of the project that are kind of "out of scope"</p>



<a name="209101075"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101075" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101075">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>It sounds to me to be "anyone can join, they just need to jump over this hurdle"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>What I meant was, in comparison to other WGs where you do some work and then the team leads offer you membership.</p>



<a name="209101138"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101138" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101138">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>so actually maybe we should spend a bit of time on this point -- membership</p>



<a name="209101151"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101151" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101151">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>although we're out of time for this section</p>



<a name="209101158"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101158" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101158">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>what if instead if we could promote a place where people can say "pass me any issue to work on" and people who are familiar with the rust teams/issues can send them an issue to work on</p>



<a name="209101174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101174">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I am interested to hear what folks think about it</p>



<a name="209101181"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101181" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101181">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Again, not trying to point fingers or say one or the other is wrong but the policy is different for some wgs than others)</p>



<a name="209101187"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101187" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101187">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've gone back and forth on how to track membership within WGs, or even whether to do so</p>



<a name="209101204"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101204" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101204">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I kind of like <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120823">@DPC</span>'s idea</p>



<a name="209101206"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101206" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101206">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm wondering what people think of the T-compiler vs T-compiler/meeting structure</p>



<a name="209101211"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101211" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matklad <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101211">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>it should be "there are mentoring instructions"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Late to the party but we did rename <code>E-menotor</code> to <code>E-has-instructions</code> because of this in rust-analyzer</p>



<a name="209101221"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101221" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101221">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>for some groups (e.g., wg-traits), membrship can be tied to repo rights</p>



<a name="209101224"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101224" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101224">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>where we have the group of "leaders" or "decision makers" in T-compiler</p>



<a name="209101232"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101232" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101232">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>It seems like organizing the available work is also a problem</p>



<a name="209101243"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101243" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101243">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I would like some way for folks to "sign up" that is always opt-in, maybe along with higher levels that correspond to "Committer rights"</p>



<a name="209101247"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101247" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101247">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>but <em>anyone</em> can join T-compiler/meeting to just stay abreast of what's going on</p>



<a name="209101347"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101347" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101347">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, so this T-compiler vs T-compiler/meeting distinction is kind of what I'm getting at</p>



<a name="209101362"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101362" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101362">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125250">Wesley Wiser</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209101075">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>It sounds to me to be "anyone can join, they just need to jump over this hurdle"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>What I meant was, in comparison to other WGs where you do some work and then the team leads offer you membership.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>this sounds odd to me because I've <em>only</em> been on teams that are invite-only</p>



<a name="209101389"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101389" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101389">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116266">@Santiago Pastorino</span> and I had talked at some point about having the option in the team repo so that there is a 'notify' group for <em>every</em> team</p>



<a name="209101403"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101403" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101403">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, what is the distinction of being on a team if you jsut added your name to the document?</p>



<a name="209101414"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101414" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101414">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then there are "members" that are invite only</p>



<a name="209101420"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101420" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101420">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>you can still make contributions if you're not an official member</p>



<a name="209101444"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101444" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101444">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232545">@Joshua Nelson</span> I think the answer is that you would get pings and things</p>



<a name="209101446"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101446" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101446">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209101247">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>but <em>anyone</em> can join T-compiler/meeting to just stay abreast of what's going on</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That takes a lot of time and energy... I imagine only frequent contributors do that</p>



<a name="209101463"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101463" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101463">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>but also it's a kind of 'commitment'</p>



<a name="209101479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101479">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120823">@DPC</span> floated this idea that we haven't discussed much,</p>



<a name="209101482"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101482" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101482">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>I know a concern that has come up before is with the <a href="http://rust-lang.org/governance">rust-lang.org/governance</a> page and the Rust org logo. WG members get listed on that page and get the organization invite so essentially you can add yourself to those things without doing anything.</p>



<a name="209101553"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101553" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101553">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we should turn to that and then move to the last set of contributors?</p>



<a name="209101570"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101570" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101570">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me (eyes the clock)</p>



<a name="209101572"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101572" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101572">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>But also, that (the wg-prioritization thing) happened before we introduced the ping notification groups concept</p>



<a name="209101604"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101604" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101604">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>( i feel membership deserves a separate discussion )</p>



<a name="209101611"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101611" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101611">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do too</p>



<a name="209101629"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101629" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101629">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>let's cut it off for now because I think the role of this meeting is more to survey (no pun intended) :)</p>



<a name="209101643"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101643" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101643">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209101446">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209101247">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>but <em>anyone</em> can join T-compiler/meeting to just stay abreast of what's going on</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That takes a lot of time and energy... I imagine only frequent contributors do that</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is probably true; the @_T-compiler/meeting  group is probably not as big as I had thought when I wrote that.</p>



<a name="209101693"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101693" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101693">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway I guess I'll say that <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120823">@DPC</span> I like the idea of having a place where people can request work, I think in general it fits with having a more organized set of folks devoted to 'newcomer experience'</p>



<a name="209101766"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101766" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101766">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is an idea I'd like to dig into more, but prob in a separate meeting :)</p>



<a name="209101786"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101786" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101786">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have seen people do that a bit on zulip too, but yeah, moving on</p>



<a name="209101796"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101796" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101796">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209101643">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209101446">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209101247">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>but <em>anyone</em> can join T-compiler/meeting to just stay abreast of what's going on</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That takes a lot of time and energy... I imagine only frequent contributors do that</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is probably true; the @_T-compiler/meeting  group is probably not as big as I had thought when I wrote that.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>as a point of interest, I wouldn't have looked at this channel if I hadn't gotten pinged</p>



<a name="209101798"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101798" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101798">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>A place where people can request work sounds good</p>



<a name="209101802"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101802" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101802">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>So the last group is frequent contributors</p>



<a name="209101804"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101804" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101804">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<h1>Contribute &gt;= 1/month</h1>



<a name="209101837"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101837" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101837">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know if <strong>zulip</strong> is the best place to host such a "work request channel"</p>



<a name="209101843"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101843" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101843">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>The compiler is by far the most frequently contributed-to codebase, 7/10 reporting that they contributed to the compiler</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="209101845"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101845" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101845">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>The primary pain point here seems to be "ergonomics"</p>



<a name="209101855"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101855" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101855">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>of various things</p>



<a name="209101892"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101892" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101892">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Improving the rustc-dev-guide helps frequent contributors the most.</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="209101898"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101898" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101898">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Work done to help new contributors will also help frequent contributors</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This was surprising to me</p>



<a name="209101899"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101899" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101899">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is interesting and not whatI expected</p>



<a name="209101916"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101916" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101916">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>you beat me to it</p>



<a name="209101917"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101917" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101917">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it makes sense</p>



<a name="209101926"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101926" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101926">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>(oh, sorry)</p>



<a name="209101930"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209101930" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209101930">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll let you keep going :)</p>



<a name="209102022"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102022" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102022">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>Work done to help new contributors will also help frequent contributors</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p><em>cough</em> core team rustconf keynote <em>cough</em> :)</p>



<a name="209102035"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102035" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102035">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>+1 to better compile times, this is my <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/1">#1</a> complaint and the <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/1">#1</a> complaint of several other people I've worked with</p>



<a name="209102053"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102053" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102053">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>So yeah, I guess getting more content into the guide would be a good thing to push -- and that seems to already be a trend</p>



<a name="209102141"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102141" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102141">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I'll add that it prevents some people from getting into the freq contrib group</p>



<a name="209102164"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102164" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102164">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>PRs often lack context, why created?</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="209102169"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102169" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102169">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. I don't have a machine powerful enough to build the compiler in &lt; 2 hours</p>



<a name="209102175"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102175" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102175">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/65031">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/65031</a> seems like a good starting point for that</p>



<a name="209102179"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102179" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102179">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>that one is interesting because it comes from the "other direction"</p>



<a name="209102191"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102191" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102191">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>not sure if it helps, but <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232545">@Joshua Nelson</span> in the past suggested a s-waiting-on-help label where in we know that an author needs help from the reviewer/associated team</p>



<a name="209102349"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102349" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102349">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>the meeting I discussed it at decided that the use cases were covered by waiting-on-review</p>



<a name="209102377"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102377" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102377">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>which, fair, but better labelling always helps</p>



<a name="209102388"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102388" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102388">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mostly opened it in response to triage being over-eager to switch to waiting-on-author though</p>



<a name="209102397"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102397" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102397">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>which might be a separate issue</p>



<a name="209102415"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102415" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102415">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>compilation time seems like both the biggest but also the hardest problem</p>



<a name="209102420"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102420" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102420">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>so are there things we can do specifically for building the compiler that would improve the edit-compile-debug cycle</p>



<a name="209102426"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102426" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102426">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102169">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>e.g. I don't have a machine powerful enough to build the compiler in &lt; 2 hours</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Does that have to be true today? Assuming you have a decent machine (maybe i5 equivalent with 8gb of RAM) I feel like you should be able to build a stage 1 rustc in less than two hours. Just by having the appropriate settings in config.toml.</p>



<a name="209102427"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102427" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102427">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>we've taken some steps to address it lately thought</p>



<a name="209102430"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102430" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102430">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I could also imagine that being a thing that's tracked/triaged somewhere -- # of open -need-help PRs</p>



<a name="209102433"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102433" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102433">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>such as changing x.py to stage1</p>



<a name="209102471"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102471" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102471">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>there used to be standard tricks involving keep-stage</p>



<a name="209102540"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102540" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102540">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>but maybe that's not necessary with the recent changes to x.py that niko just mentioned?</p>



<a name="209102542"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102542" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102542">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>it is also true that the more we are able to create standalone libraries, the less of a problem that is</p>



<a name="209102543"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102543" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102543">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125250">@Wesley Wiser</span> are people aware of the appropriate settings?</p>



<a name="209102561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102561">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125250">Wesley Wiser</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102426">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102169">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>e.g. I don't have a machine powerful enough to build the compiler in &lt; 2 hours</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Does that have to be true today? Assuming you have a decent machine (maybe i5 equivalent with 8gb of RAM) I feel like you should be able to build a stage 1 rustc in less than two hours. Just by having the appropriate settings in config.toml.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I tend to run <code>./x.py check</code> and then use CI</p>



<a name="209102565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102565">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102471">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>there used to be standard tricks involving keep-stage</p>
</blockquote>
<p>it would be good not to need tricks</p>



<a name="209102569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102569">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know. Am I totally off base there?</p>



<a name="209102579"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102579" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102579">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that doesn't help with a stage 1 build</p>



<a name="209102591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102591">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is normally the blocker</p>



<a name="209102617"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102617" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102617">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102565">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102471">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>there used to be standard tricks involving keep-stage</p>
</blockquote>
<p>it would be good not to need tricks</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes I agree with this. I just want to understand what the people are doing</p>



<a name="209102631"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102631" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102631">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>And there are some PRs, especially large refactors that require running everything</p>



<a name="209102661"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102661" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102661">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I find I no longer use the various tricks, but I also have a fairly powerful desktop that can build rustc much faster. I don't even <em>attempt</em> to build it on my laptop, I admit.</p>



<a name="209102666"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102666" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102666">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102561">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125250">Wesley Wiser</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102426">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102169">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>e.g. I don't have a machine powerful enough to build the compiler in &lt; 2 hours</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Does that have to be true today? Assuming you have a decent machine (maybe i5 equivalent with 8gb of RAM) I feel like you should be able to build a stage 1 rustc in less than two hours. Just by having the appropriate settings in config.toml.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I tend to run <code>./x.py check</code> and then use CI</p>
</blockquote>
<p>this only works for refactoring things :/</p>



<a name="209102671"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102671" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102671">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>specifically, there were periods of time where "experts" were regularly using keep-stage to get quick feedback cycles, and I was unaware of it. and then I would start using it but it would periodically break</p>



<a name="209102696"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102696" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102696">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>if you're adding new functionality check is not enough, you need to make sure it <em>works</em></p>



<a name="209102700"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102700" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102700">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>(because you couldn't rely on it to work properly in response to all changes )</p>



<a name="209102749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102749">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<h1>5 minutes left</h1>



<a name="209102753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102753">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>i think we could slightly push the idea that "CI is your friend" and it is fine to rely on the CI at times</p>



<a name="209102807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102807">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, that seems like a useful workflow, in lieu of having some way to give people acess to distributed build clusters or something :)</p>



<a name="209102844"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102844" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102844">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>(also, this comes back to my question about whether people can/should/do use incremental=true in their config.toml )</p>



<a name="209102849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102849">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120823">DPC</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102753">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>i think we could slightly push the idea that "CI is your friend" and it is fine to rely on the CI at times</p>
</blockquote>
<p>again, this only works for refactoring</p>



<a name="209102887"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102887" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102887">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102849">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120823">DPC</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102753">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>i think we could slightly push the idea that "CI is your friend" and it is fine to rely on the CI at times</p>
</blockquote>
<p>again, this only works for refactoring</p>
</blockquote>
<p>? why do you say that?</p>



<a name="209102888"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102888" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102888">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>not <em>opposed</em> to it, but it doesn't fix the issue</p>



<a name="209102889"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102889" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102889">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, I guess in the last 5 minutes, we can discuss any final conclusions? I'd like to maybe recap the most interesting or promising points that were raised</p>



<a name="209102890"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102890" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102890">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102696">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>if you're adding new functionality check is not enough, you need to make sure it <em>works</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>If you have good tests, then the CI does make sure it "works"</p>



<a name="209102909"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102909" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102909">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102890">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102696">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>if you're adding new functionality check is not enough, you need to make sure it <em>works</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>If you have good tests, then the CI does make sure it "works"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>15 minute turnaround times are too slow</p>



<a name="209102913"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102913" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102913">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>relying the CI will e.g. run the test suite, right?</p>



<a name="209102918"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102918" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102918">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102849">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120823">DPC</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102753">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>i think we could slightly push the idea that "CI is your friend" and it is fine to rely on the CI at times</p>
</blockquote>
<p>again, this only works for refactoring</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeh won't work for all cases, but at least for some of them</p>



<a name="209102927"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102927" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102927">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but also, yeah, I do a lot of refactoring PRs <span aria-label="stuck out tongue" class="emoji emoji-1f61b" role="img" title="stuck out tongue">:stuck_out_tongue:</span>)</p>



<a name="209102934"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102934" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102934">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's no way you can get a feature done in less than a <em>week</em> with that</p>



<a name="209102947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102947">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it's also really frustrating</p>



<a name="209102956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102956">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh okay you're just saying that the CI turnaround time is too long</p>



<a name="209102960"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102960" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102960">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then conflicts <span aria-label="stuck out tongue" class="emoji emoji-1f61b" role="img" title="stuck out tongue">:stuck_out_tongue:</span></p>



<a name="209102961"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209102961" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209102961">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>that I agree with</p>



<a name="209103007"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103007" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103007">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102889">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>so, I guess in the last 5 minutes, we can discuss any final conclusions? I'd like to maybe recap the most interesting or promising points that were raised</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="209103017"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103017" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103017">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>no I'm saying that pushing to CI is too slow</p>



<a name="209103045"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103045" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103045">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, I wouldn't contribute so frequently if i couldn't build rustc locally</p>



<a name="209103056"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103056" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103056">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>regardless of how fast CI was</p>



<a name="209103068"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103068" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103068">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>( i don't know i generally push at night before sleeping, and wake up to CI errors, so i don't care how long it takes <span aria-label="stuck out tongue" class="emoji emoji-1f61b" role="img" title="stuck out tongue">:stuck_out_tongue:</span> )</p>



<a name="209103100"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103100" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103100">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102909">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102890">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102696">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>if you're adding new functionality check is not enough, you need to make sure it <em>works</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>If you have good tests, then the CI does make sure it "works"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>15 minute turnaround times are too slow</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It's better than 30 minutes or more ... <span aria-label="confused" class="emoji emoji-1f615" role="img" title="confused">:confused:</span></p>



<a name="209103101"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103101" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103101">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>If you're working on a feature, the pain of the initial stage 1 build with incremental seems worth the relatively quick turn around times there after.</p>



<a name="209103108"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103108" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103108">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120823">DPC</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209103068">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>( i don't know i generally push at night before sleeping, and wake up to CI errors, so i don't care how long it takes :P )</p>
</blockquote>
<p>this is what I mean by adding features taking a week</p>



<a name="209103145"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103145" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103145">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>please take compilation time discussion to a separate topic I think</p>



<a name="209103202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103202">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209102956">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>oh okay you're just saying that the CI turnaround time is too long</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It's not really a CI problem... this is an abuse of CI</p>



<a name="209103276"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103276" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103276">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>as in this is a workaround for another problem</p>



<a name="209103287"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103287" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103287">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Take away: The rustc dev guide is immensely helpful to a wide range of contributors and we should continue pushing for people to contribute to it. Especially when they make changes to the compiler.</p>



<a name="209103289"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103289" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103289">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>(the CI discussion is part of the compilation time one, lets move it elsewhere)</p>



<a name="209103293"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103293" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103293">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh, sorry</p>



<a name="209103302"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103302" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103302">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think one takeaway for me was the general idea of trying to map out the contribution pathways at various levels in more detail -- I like the idea of actively monitoring stats like E-mentor bugs and having effot put to increasing the number -- but I also wonder if we hav the bandwidth for it</p>



<a name="209103358"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103358" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103358">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>the triage-wg can help in monitoring e-mentor issues if needed</p>



<a name="209103361"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103361" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103361">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think this covers both like actively increasing E-mentor, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120823">@DPC</span>'s suggestions of ways to request work, etc.</p>



<a name="209103368"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103368" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103368">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>if we could programmatically extract the stats</p>



<a name="209103387"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103387" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103387">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>then monitoring E-mentor wolud be reasonable.</p>



<a name="209103423"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103423" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103423">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>This is not a take-away, but one other thing: I've notcied that <a class="stream" data-stream-id="122652" href="/#narrow/stream/122652-new-members">#new members</a> is a pretty great and active channel, and people often get useful advice there.</p>



<a name="209103428"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103428" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103428">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>but that would require some way to tell if mentoring instructions are actually added...</p>



<a name="209103509"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103509" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103509">(Sep 04 2020 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I think <a class="stream" data-stream-id="122652" href="/#narrow/stream/122652-new-members">#new members</a>  shows an appetite for a place for people to show up, introduce themselves, and get some help in getting oriented)</p>



<a name="209103546"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103546" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103546">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would propose one other thing: the compile time problems seem to point at librarification</p>



<a name="209103623"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103623" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103623">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Do you mean for librarification or against?</p>



<a name="209103632"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103632" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103632">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, people who contributed to things like chalk often mentioned that it was a lot easier</p>



<a name="209103641"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103641" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103641">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Got it</p>



<a name="209103642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103642">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>for librarification</p>



<a name="209103664"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103664" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103664">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it also helps with other things, like large intimidating codebase etc</p>



<a name="209103670"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103670" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103670">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>or at least it <em>can</em></p>



<a name="209103698"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103698" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103698">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209103423">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>This is not a take-away, but one other thing: I've notcied that <a class="stream" data-stream-id="122652" href="/#narrow/stream/122652-new-members">#new members</a> is a pretty great and active channel, and people often get useful advice there.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>one first good step we're making is that people often say hi there and they always get very nice and encouraging welcoming messages, which is at least encouraging to make new people feel good, next step is well ... what we are talking about :), turn them into contributors :)</p>



<a name="209103706"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103706" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> matklad <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103706">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I would propose one other thing: the compile time problems seem to point at librarification</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Im gonna write a whole Rust in 2021 blog post about this....</p>



<a name="209103747"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103747" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103747">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>All right, we are at time</p>



<a name="209103755"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103755" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103755">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>it also gives an implicit license for people to experiment more freely</p>



<a name="209103782"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103782" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103782">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I want to give a <strong>huge</strong> thank you to <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="198054">@mark-i-m</span> for both making this survey happen and doing such a thorough job of analyzing the results</p>



<a name="209103799"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103799" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103799">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also a bit of a stretch: but I can also imagine it being an argument for being able to build the compiler, std, etc separately. e.g. moving std/core/alloc/etc to another repo and making them buildable with beta (which I had discussed with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span>  at some point)</p>



<a name="209103800"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103800" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103800">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>do we have any action items now? Probably nothing explicit</p>



<a name="209103804"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103804" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103804">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I suspect we're going to be looking at this data for some time yet to test hypotheses</p>



<a name="209103819"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103819">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh yes, thank you <strong>so</strong> much <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="198054">@mark-i-m</span></p>



<a name="209103832"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103832" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103832">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think we have concrete action items, but I think that's ok, I kind of expected mostly to brainstorm in this meeting</p>



<a name="209103883"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103883" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103883">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there's also some problems with it (librification). If you have good hardware, it's great. If you're memory constrained, having all those link jobs running at the time hits swap and your compile times go sky high.</p>



<a name="209103911"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103911" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103911">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I <strong>would</strong> like someone to write minutes for this meeting</p>



<a name="209103914"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103914" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103914">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125250">Wesley Wiser</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209103883">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think there's also some problems with it (librification). If you have good hardware, it's great. If you're memory constrained, having all those link jobs running at the time hits swap and your compile times go sky high.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>you can turn that down with -j2 though</p>



<a name="209103916"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103916" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103916">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's more important than most</p>



<a name="209103979"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209103979" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209103979">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I can do that if nobody has time though)</p>



<a name="209104012"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104012" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104012">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think we should assign someone...</p>



<a name="209104093"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104093" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104093">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would volunteer but I owe one or two meeting notes already and I don't think I have the time to get to this soon.</p>



<a name="209104128"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104128" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104128">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>heh I owe a bunch too :P</p>



<a name="209104180"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104180" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104180">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe I should not have volunteered :P</p>



<a name="209104202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104202">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>but if nobody else signs up I'll just do it right now, as I said I think this one is more important</p>



<a name="209104231"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104231" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104231">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>by the way, here is a topic I just created to discuss compile times: <a class="stream-topic" data-stream-id="131828" href="/#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/improving.20bootstrap.20times.20for.20contributor.20fun.20and.20profit">#t-compiler &gt; improving bootstrap times for contributor fun and profit</a></p>



<a name="209104541"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104541" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104541">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209104202">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>but if nobody else signs up I'll just do it right now, as I said I think this one is more important</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I'd volunteer too but don't have time neither :(</p>



<a name="209104577"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104577" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104577">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was wondering actually, wouldn't it make sense for following meetings to define someone that takes note beforehand?</p>



<a name="209104610"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104610" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104610">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>or even have that written with the proposal</p>



<a name="209104624"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104624" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104624">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>it may be easier to take notes as we go</p>



<a name="209104627"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104627" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104627">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>at least for me</p>



<a name="209104631"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104631" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104631">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do think it makes sense, but somehow it rarely happens :)</p>



<a name="209104643"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104643" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104643">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>right :)</p>



<a name="209104645"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104645" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104645">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p><del>t-compiler/wg-notetakers</del> <span aria-label="grinning" class="emoji emoji-1f600" role="img" title="grinning">:grinning:</span></p>



<a name="209104651"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104651" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104651">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116266">Santiago Pastorino</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209104624">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>it may be easier to take notes as we go</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I used to try that</p>



<a name="209104656"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104656" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104656">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>and sometimes I do</p>



<a name="209104665"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104665" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104665">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it's also kind of nice to read back over the conversation</p>



<a name="209104708"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104708" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104708">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, we should break this into a separate topic probably ;)</p>



<a name="209104719"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104719" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104719">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>yep <span aria-label="+1" class="emoji emoji-1f44d" role="img" title="+1">:+1:</span></p>



<a name="209104728"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104728" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104728">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>it does really help when people add <span aria-label="point up" class="emoji emoji-1f446" role="img" title="point up">:point_up:</span> and so forth</p>



<a name="209104755"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104755" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104755">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>or any emoji really</p>



<a name="209104769"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209104769" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> DPC <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209104769">(Sep 04 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we could discuss this in wg-meta</p>



<a name="209115836"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209115836" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209115836">(Sep 04 2020 at 16:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh related to the survey: someone on discord said they <em>specifically</em> avoided PR-ing rust-lang/rust if they could avoid it, let me go ask them why</p>



<a name="209115862"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209115862" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209115862">(Sep 04 2020 at 16:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="224471">@Lokathor</span> ?)</p>



<a name="209117981"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209117981" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209117981">(Sep 04 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>yay they said they'll write a blog post about it sometime soon <span aria-label="heart" class="emoji emoji-2764" role="img" title="heart">:heart:</span> will link it when they do</p>



<a name="209238939"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209238939" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209238939">(Sep 06 2020 at 19:48)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209117981">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>yay they said they'll write a blog post about it sometime soon <span aria-label="heart" class="emoji emoji-2764" role="img" title="heart">:heart:</span> will link it when they do</p>
</blockquote>
<p>ok, I spent a lot of today on this.</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/76418">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/76418</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/76417">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/76417</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/pull/852">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/pull/852</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/pull/851">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/pull/851</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/850">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/850</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76419">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76419</a></li>
</ul>
<p>The tl;dr is that we do a lot of things wrong, and there are a lot of reasons they avoid PRs: <a href="https://hackmd.io/RHyLd-27QXOR5AHa-oa6Fg?view">https://hackmd.io/RHyLd-27QXOR5AHa-oa6Fg?view</a>. This is not super favorable to the rust project, so I'm hitting the highlights here in a less frustrated tone. Apologies for the wall of text.</p>
<ul>
<li>Compile times are really bad, especially on first builds. <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/improving.20bootstrap.20times.20for.20contributor.20fun.20and.20profit">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/improving.20bootstrap.20times.20for.20contributor.20fun.20and.20profit</a> already discussed this a lot. The space taken for a compile is also really bad.</li>
<li>Taking extensive knowledge of <code>git</code> as a prerequisite makes it a lot harder to contribute. I opened <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/850">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/850</a> for this, <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1380">@WG-rustc-dev-guide</span> can fix this ourselves without too much trouble I think.</li>
<li>The x.py defaults are meant for CI, not for contributors. <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/326">https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/326</a> helped with this, but we should try not to have to recommend changes to <code>config.toml.example</code> in the dev guide.</li>
<li>Review latency is bad. <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/.22Review.20latency.20can.20be.20challenging.22">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/.22Review.20latency.20can.20be.20challenging.22</a> talked about this, but I don't know that there were any changes as a result of the discussion.</li>
<li>Merge conflicts are frustrating. This compounds with the <code>git</code> issues and review latency; it also doesn't help that the compiler changes so frequently.</li>
<li>The dev-guide has room for improvements:<ul>
<li>It could be organized better (will write this up in an issue at some point)</li>
<li>It doesn't have enough information. In particular, a lot of knowledge seems to only live in the heads of contributors (e.g. <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/836">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/836</a>). We need more compiler members working on this, not just people from the working group.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Being able to build <code>libstd</code> with just <code>cargo build</code> and <code>cargo test</code> would make it a lot easier to get started.</li>
<li>It's hard to find mentors. This compounds with 'knowledge only lives in the heads of contributors'.</li>
</ul>
<p>Some other pieces of knowledge:</p>
<ul>
<li>New contributors definitely use CI rather than having to build locally</li>
<li>First-time build times are a major issue, not just incremental builds</li>
<li><code>S-waiting-for-help</code> would help new contributors the most. Maybe we should reconsider this?</li>
<li>New contributors don't know <code>rustbot</code> exists and they can modify labels. I think this could be fixed by mentioning it in the highfive welcome message.</li>
</ul>



<a name="209239088"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209239088" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209239088">(Sep 06 2020 at 19:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am available for any further follow-up questions people have about what I wrote. Each major section of the document (background, survey, meeting) was written on a separate day, so a few points might be less organized than the ideal.</p>



<a name="209243887"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209243887" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jubilee <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209243887">(Sep 06 2020 at 22:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Even people who think they are available for mentorship or talking about something should basically assume that a new person is <strong>terrified to ask</strong> (or too stubborn, or too befuddled, or w/e... the same directional pressures get felt in different ways) and is going to be lucky to be able to summon the mental energy to find the right person, shove aside any regrets, and ask once.</p>
<p>Ability to procedurally mark a request for help as such would do a lot.</p>



<a name="209244559"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209244559" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209244559">(Sep 06 2020 at 22:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>S-request-for-help would also make it easier to do drive-by reviews I think</p>



<a name="209244566"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209244566" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209244566">(Sep 06 2020 at 22:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can tell the difference between 'needs knowledge of the compiler' and 'needs help getting started'</p>



<a name="209245233"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245233" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jubilee <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245233">(Sep 06 2020 at 22:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>which git GUI do you use, Lokathor? Like, "I dunno, it came with (XYZ)" is fine, I just need that much.</p>



<a name="209245289"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245289" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245289">(Sep 06 2020 at 22:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I use both the official Github for Windows Desktop, and also the VS Code git plugin (on the macbook).</p>



<a name="209245595"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245595" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245595">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="224471">Lokathor</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209245289">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I use both the official Github for Windows Desktop, and also the VS Code git plugin (on the macbook).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>FYI this might be helpful <a href="https://docs.github.com/en/desktop/contributing-and-collaborating-using-github-desktop/syncing-your-branch#rebasing-your-project-branch-onto-another-branch">https://docs.github.com/en/desktop/contributing-and-collaborating-using-github-desktop/syncing-your-branch#rebasing-your-project-branch-onto-another-branch</a></p>



<a name="209245771"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245771" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jubilee <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245771">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:08)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="224471">@Lokathor</span> I know you're on Windows mostly but do you have the Git Bash for Windows environment on that and can run a shell script? Someone mentioned removing <code>x.py</code> from the equation entirely in favor of a shell script and as rustbuild has grown stronger (harder, better, faster), that has become increasingly plausible.</p>
<p>Not much of a win if it just splits into a shell script and a Powershell script tho'.</p>



<a name="209245785"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245785" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245785">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Might I suggest <code>cargo-make</code> or <code>cargo-xtask</code> or similar "teach rust to do this thing" paths forward.</p>



<a name="209245835"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245835" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245835">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>though I do have some sort of msys shell thing I think, not working in cmd.exe or powershell would probably be a bad move overall.</p>



<a name="209245842"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245842" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245842">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mentioned this in DMS too - I don't really see getting rid of x.py being feasible</p>



<a name="209245843"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245843" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245843">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>adding a <code>cargo xbuild</code> <em>alias</em> seems easy enough</p>



<a name="209245845"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245845" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245845">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it's never going to replace src/bootstrap/bootstrap.py</p>



<a name="209245849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jubilee <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245849">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>fwiw I agree, I just wanted to know because uh... removing Python, if it would be a strict improvement, would be a good idea _even for Unix users_. But if it's not, it's not.</p>



<a name="209245909"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209245909" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jubilee <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209245909">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>( I have had to fix people's Python packaging hells enough times I view it as suspicious as a keystone dependency. :P ...but I mean, at least it's not Ruby Bundler Hell. )</p>



<a name="209246224"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209246224" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209246224">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Removing x.py seems entirely feasible -- removing bootstrap does not. But making the entry point be something like <code>cargo run -- check</code> as alternative to <code>./x.py check</code> is definitely feasible.</p>



<a name="209246284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209246284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jubilee <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209246284">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>"bootstrap" or bootstrap.py tho'</p>



<a name="209246288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209246288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209246288">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Python.</p>



<a name="209246298"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209246298" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209246298">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>(At least as a required part of Rust. I'm not sure what's needed to build LLVM).</p>



<a name="209246348"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209246348" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jubilee <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209246348">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Rust's Python runs at least without any package deps, right? Hm.</p>



<a name="209246366"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209246366" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209246366">(Sep 06 2020 at 23:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyway, let's move this to separate thread(s) if you want to discuss further, I don't want to pollute the meeting thread</p>



<a name="209462651"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/209462651" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#209462651">(Sep 09 2020 at 01:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>opened <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76503">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76503</a> in response to <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="224471">Lokathor</span>'s post and some other ideas I've had bouncing around</p>



<a name="211796942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/211796942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#211796942">(Sep 30 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I took another look at the post now that some changes are landed. The things left are:</p>
<h2>Needs implementation</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76419">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76419</a>: I need to figure out how this would work with people not using rustup but overall seems doable</li>
<li>Possibly improving the 'new contributor' defaults further: <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/Opinions.20wanted.3A.20good.20x.2Epy.20defaults.20to.20suggest.3F">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/Opinions.20wanted.3A.20good.20x.2Epy.20defaults.20to.20suggest.3F</a>. Overall I'm pretty happy with how this turned out though :)</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/351">https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/351</a> which I never got around too. This is a small QOL thing but would be helpful especially for frequent contributors.</li>
<li>Various changes to the dev-guide. These aren't too hard but just need someone to put in the time, they'd be good first contributions in themselves.<ul>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/873">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/873</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/866">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/866</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/853">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/853</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/831">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/831</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<h2>Needs design</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/RIIR.20contributor.20entry.20point">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/RIIR.20contributor.20entry.20point</a> which seems feasible but needs design</li>
<li>Review latency is still bad<ul>
<li>This is compounded by a lot of knowledge living in the heads of contributors. <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1380">@WG-rustc-dev-guide</span> has been doing a great job on this but there's still more to go.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Improving compile times, especially in rustc_middle but also in general. I don't know how to fix this :/ I had a crazy idea a while back to <a href="#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/Rust-based.20JIT/near/211011340">get rid of monomorphization altogether</a> but that probably has unacceptable performance tradeoffs.</li>
</ul>
<h2>Needs decision</h2>
<ul>
<li><code>S-waiting-on-help</code> never happened. I still this this would be really useful.</li>
</ul>
<h2>Not feasible</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20move.20compiler.2F.20crates.20to.20stable.20Rust.20compiler-team.23358">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/MCP.3A.20move.20compiler.2F.20crates.20to.20stable.20Rust.20compiler-team.23358</a> or <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/Building.20rustc.20with.20beta.20libstd">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/Building.20rustc.20with.20beta.20libstd</a>, both of which seem pretty unlikely to happen</li>
</ul>



<a name="211797145"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/211797145" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#211797145">(Sep 30 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>IMO the biggest roadblocks are review latency and compile times, which are unfortunately also the hardest to fix</p>



<a name="211797443"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/211797443" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#211797443">(Sep 30 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had a discussion with wg-triage about pinging reviewers more often a while ago, but it never went anywhere: <a href="#narrow/stream/242269-t-release.2Ftriage/topic/Criteria.20for.20triage.20to.20look.20at.20a.20PR">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/242269-t-release.2Ftriage/topic/Criteria.20for.20triage.20to.20look.20at.20a.20PR</a></p>



<a name="214744386"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/214744386" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#214744386">(Oct 27 2020 at 18:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wrote up meeting notes: <a href="https://hackmd.io/daPDR2Q7Ryey0Q2gqgSM2w">https://hackmd.io/daPDR2Q7Ryey0Q2gqgSM2w</a></p>



<a name="219501613"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/219501613" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#219501613">(Dec 10 2020 at 16:58)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Some want to make drive-by contributions, but this is hard with slow compile times</p>
</blockquote>
<p>example: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/79654#discussion_r540328308">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/79654#discussion_r540328308</a></p>



<a name="246580463"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/246580463" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#246580463">(Jul 20 2021 at 13:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="133169">matklad</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler.2Fmeetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04/near/209101211">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>it should be "there are mentoring instructions"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Late to the party but we did rename <code>E-menotor</code> to <code>E-has-instructions</code> because of this in rust-analyzer</p>
</blockquote>
<p>are there any objections to doing this in rust-lang/rust? I think it describes the goal more clearly</p>



<a name="246580502"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning%20meeting%202020.09.04/near/246580502" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/238009-t-compiler/meetings/topic/planning.20meeting.202020.2E09.2E04.html#246580502">(Jul 20 2021 at 13:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm I should probably ask in <a class="stream" data-stream-id="122651" href="/#narrow/stream/122651-general">#general</a> for visibility</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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